businesses are growing and technology by its very basins has to keep improving. that is basically what we are seeing. companies have to adapt to that. that's why we are seeing dell and hp have not necessarily done so much. although they are looking more to get into data storage and servers and it and all of that. but still when you talk about smartphones and tablets, apple, samsung, they own that market. it's very hard to get into it. >> perhaps not the end of the pc as we know it, but they will kind of more of into a different -- >> it's definitely declining. that's definitely happening. and people will expect it to continue declining. and perhaps by 2020 we will seed end of the pc. it's hard to know at this point. when you have your smartphone and tablet. >> by the way, when did you get rid of your rotary phone? >> that was last week. >> no way! [laughter] >> you know what i think still has one, greg jarret. oh, there he is. >> you can't beat a good rotary phone. >> see, a man of my heart. there we go. >> you can catch brenda on golden bears every saturday morn